the last interview until now

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Interview 26/05/2016
0:05.0 – 1:10.0
M: Well you’ve just told me some of what’s happened, from the last interview until now, can you tell me some of that again so I’ve got it all?
Eh…right, well when I seen you I wouldae been in the prison in 2014. Eh…I didnae know where I was going tae live, no fixed address again, homeless. I ended up, when I got liberated, I ended up in a hostel which wasnae a very good place because…drugs I’m away frae, drink’s more ma problem ootside now. And a hostel wasnae an ideal situation because most people are in there are the same as I was years before, they’ve got a drug problems, drink problem, so it’s no’ good surroundings, so…in the hostel, started drinking, only lasted 12 days outside the prison. Then I got taken tae jail again for 9 months…for breaking intae a shop, taking the till.
1:10.0 – 2:51.0
M: Taking a towel?
The till. Money.
M: Oh, the till. Right.
Aye, I got 9 month for that, back tae the usual, in the jail, going tae the gym, going tae ma work shed, just anything you can do tae pass the time. Exercise…
M: Was that in Edinburgh you were in?
Naw, I got moved tae Perth…eh…one of my family members got accused…he was accused ae a stabbing…
M: In the prison?
In the prison, aye, aye. One of ma family members so they moved me up tae Perth because they says I was a high risk ae being violent in the prison because I’d been accused ae violence in the past in the prison so they moved me tae another prison, I was in that prison, I was only in that prison for 4 or 5 weeks, then I was liberated again, back tae the same, intae a hostel…eh…fae the hostel I ended up…I managed to get a private let which…took me oot the hostel so it was myself, but I find it hard myself outside the prison, because I’ve been in prison all my life. But then again I never had people using drugs roond aboot me, drinking roond aboot me in the hostels, I’m no’ saying I stopped drinking all together but I wasnae drinking as much because I never had they people roond aboot me, I wasnae seeing it as much. I done ma best and I actually done quite well, I was oot of prison for about……..3 month, maybe 4 month which was a long time ootside for me. I was trying tae find work, couldnae find work, so…just sitting aboot all day, I started drinking again.
2:51.0 – 5:18.0
M: Where were you at the time, was that in Perth then, or…
Outside?
M: Yeah.
It was in Falkirk. I was through in Falkirk at the time. I met…I met new people through there that I now class as ma friends, but I started drinking again just tae pass the days, the boredom, just tae get through the days. Just drinking and I ended up getting arrested one day and I didnae know what it was for. I genuinely didnae know what the police were arresting me for. I went tae ma friend’s door because I didnae know who these people were, a man and a lady at ma friend’s door, I’ve went over and asked them…something CIA, or CID or something and I informed them naebody was in the hoose, I was the only one in the hoose and they says…they asked me ma name, I told them ma name, they says to me “come tae the police station” I says “For what?” They says “We’re asking you just tae come voluntarily.” So I went on my own behalf, no’ thinking nothing. They questioned me about attempted murders, abductions, assault and robberies…I didnae know anything aboot it so I wasnae telling them lies, and before I knew it, they’ve charged me wi’…two attempt murders, a serious assault, a permanent disfigurement, eh….endangering lives and two abductions which I didnae really know nothing aboot. And as I says tae them, I says “That person’s no’ in the hoose”, I says “Ma friend’s gone.” I says. “I’m the only one wi’ the key” and obviously ma pal who’s hoose it was, he had a key but I knew he hadnae been in that long because I just left his house about an hour prior to this, this was about 9 o’clock, quarter past 8 in the morning, when I seen them at ma friend’s door after I was away tae get ma medication and in the police station before I got charged, attempted murder, serious assaults, abductions, assault, robberies, so I got a seven day lie down, then back up tae court, then got fully committed and I lay fully committed til…til May. The end ae May 2014, right up until December 2014. On charges that I didnae have a clue about.
5:18.0 – 6:27.0
M: Would that have been 2015 thought?
2015, aye, sorry. 2015, sorry. 2015, aye, aye.
M: That’s a long time.
Aye, 8 months on remand, especially for crimes that I’ve no’ committed. But even ma lawyer and ma QC fae the start says “This is like something out ae like…” There was a television programme he says…it’ll come back tae me, I can’t remember. It was just a farce, you could clearly see that the police were trying tae set me up. Even the people who was there says “Naw, Dan wasnae…”
M: Involved in it.
Aye, wasnae involved…you could clearly see it had nothing tae dae with me. Even the people…even the victims clearly says “That person’s ma pal, he wasnae there.” The police were clearly trying just tae wipe me aff the streets. So I ended up going tae trial and the PF couldnae get the witnesses tae get statements so we kept going up and doon tae court, up and doon tae court and then they just acquitted us because the witnesses kept failing tae appear and they couldnae get statements so I got acquitted.
6:27.0 – 7:58.0
M: Do you know who did do it? Because it was pals of yours who were the victims, right?
Aye, aye, aye. Well, no. I’ve no really seen these people since….since the court case. But I sort ae seen one ae them once, he just stays “I dunno why you were in the jail because we know it was nothing tae dae wi’ you.” I think…why they say this happened in this hoose is unbeknown tae me because the person whose hoose it is, he has never been in trouble in his life. He’s never been in the jail, he’s never been involved wi’ the police, and that’s how I became friends wi’ him, because he’s no’ been in trouble before and I was like alright…I’ll have a drink wi’ him but it’ll keep me out ae trouble, away from ABC or XYZ, it’ll keep me awa fae places. So I just sat wi’ him, stayed wi’ him. He disnae keep very well, I look after him, he drinks all the time, maself, I drink a lot but he drinks just constant and he’s a right friendly a person and I look after him, make sure he was all right, again because he’s got no family, he knew I’d no family outside, I think he had 1 sister but they don’t talk tae him either, because of the drink. So anyway, I got taken tae court…in December 2015…2015, aye. I got oot again, I still had ma flat because I was remanded. They don’t shut your house doon when you’re remanded.
7:58.0 – 10:47.0
M: OK.
They leave it open for a year, they keep it open so I still had ma house. I got oot again, it was just back tae the same old thingmies, selling drugs tae get money, it’s the only way I know how tae survive, sell drugs or robberies just tae get by but selling drugs, and then…the police tried to do me wi’ selling and supplying drugs, but yet again, they never got any drugs, so I didnae know where they were getting the charges from, where they were getting the drugs and then…as I say I was helping ma pal, looking after him, staying at his bit and my bit and this particular night we were down at his bit staying because he’d taken a fit and then next morning I was walking up tae ma own hoose tae get a change ae clothes and that, and ma door had been kicked in, my hoose door had been kicked in, didnae know who it was, phoned ma landlord, she didnae know, phoned ma lawyer, he phoned…I knew it wasnae people outside that kicked the door in, I knew because they wouldnae have done it. So I knew it was the police, so I got ma lawyer and it was SOCA, Scottish Organised Crime Agency kicked ma door doon. Whatever’s happened, yet again, I was getting accused ae it and I think they accused me ae stabbing so they’ve kicked ma door in, searched all the hoose, but because I wasnae involved in it, there was nothing in the hoose, there was no evidence, nothing, whatever’s happened, I still don’t even know who it was that was the victim, whatever happened tae them, but yet again they’ve kicked ma door in looking for whatever, knives, hammers, whatever, guns…but there was nothing. Everything they were looking for. That’s what ma lawyer says, he says “Dan, once they start pestering you…” he says “you’re better just gi’en it up, you’re better getting a job or full time education, because they’ll just…”Aye, that’s it, that’s it. But I wasnae even doing nothing outside at the time because I just sick ae the jails. I’ve only been oot 2 year in the last 26 year. I don’t like them noo, but I just don’t get the chance. I just don’t get the chance, it’s just constant. If you’re in areas that you’re no’ from, it’s all very well tae say “Don’t talk tae these people, keep away fae they people” but if they’re your pals you cannae just keep away fae them, know what I’m on about? And then if you’re seen wi’ them, in that place and the police don’t know you, the police’ll stop, dae a log check on you. As soon as they find oot the log check, as soon as it comes back wi’ your history , they’re just on your case constant. Just constant stopping you, searching you, stopping you, searching you.
10:47.0 – 12:15.0
M: So you almost need to move somewhere where the police don’t know you and where you don’t know anybody.
Aye, where there’s nae police! Nae police, [laughing] but because I’ve been tae jail, I know people fae everywhere, doesnae matter where I go. I’ve been up in Aberdeen High Court and you bump intae people in Edinburgh High Court, you bump intae people, Glasgow, you bump intae…doesnae matter where I go…a lot of it because of the jails.
M: England, maybe?
Aye, aye, aye. I thought about that before, just packing bags and jumping on a train, because I know people who’ve done it wi’ nothing, I know people that have actually done it with maybe two holdalls wi’ clathes in it, naewhere tae stay. Just a giro, that’s all they’ve had, and they’ve went doon, and they’ve made it! I know one ae ma pals has actually done it. Alright, he’s still in and out the jail but he’s done well, he’s no’ in and out as much. But it’s what dae you dae tae support yourself if you’re around they places? Then again, you turn tae whatever you know. Know what I mean? Just turning back tae thingmy if there’s nothing tae support you. It’s just a…it’s just hard, so hard outside. In the jail, you’ve no’ got nothing to get for yourself in here, everything’s done for you, [inaudible] everything’s done. As much as I’d love a chance outside, I believe in maself, but it’s just getting somebody else tae believe in me and gie me that chance of work. So now when the police stop me, if they stop ye and search ye and they don’t find nothing on ye, because they want you off the street, they just accuse you ae police assault anyway. So you’re as well just assaulting them, that’s the way I look at it.
12:15.0 – 13:43.0
M: And so your door got kicked in but you didn’t get charged or anything for that?
Naw, naw, naw. They had ma…obviously they ended up getting another key off the landlord, obvious the landlord’s got a key as well they got the key aff ma landlord, they fixed ma door but…it was either five days or six days they were searching ma house for…and…
M: God.
Aye, five or six days so I says “As far as they’re concerned, I’m homeless.” As far as they’re concerned, I’m in an area I’m not frae, I’ve no got any family outside anyway, so as far as they’re concerned, I’m homeless, walking the streets. And I phoned ma lawyer and I says tae him…”it’s “[Name]” he says ” doesnae matter how many phone calls I make…” He says “They’re just a law unto themselves.” The Scottish Organised Crime Agency. How did I get ma keys back? Oh, the person I was telling you about, ma pal who I look after…eh…I phoned the police station maself and by the time I got put through…and I had tae go through different stages tae get ma keys back. So when I says tae them…I says “Can I send ma friend up to get the keys?” No, I actually sent him…no, I never sent him, I asked him if he’d go and he went…it’s no far, just a walk roond the corner. He came back doon and he says “They’ll no’ gie me your keys. You’ve got tae get them yourself.” I phoned and they says “Aye, you’ve got tae come up yourself and get the keys’ I said, “no youse come tae such-and-such address” and I gave them an address.
13:43.0 – 14:29.0
M: Was that because you didn’t want to go to the police, or…
Aye, aye, I wasnae wanting tae, I wasnae wanting tae go to them, aye. Because of the bad experiences I had wi’ them before. So they actually came doon and handed me the keys theirselves, so I got the key back from ma house, but I never went back after that, I never lived in it because I was scared in case they’d planted anything, just tae listen in, so I never ever…I went back in tae get clothes and that but as far as I was concerned that was it, back to get my clathes, opening windaes, shut windaes, just things like that, so people thought I was staying in the house, open curtains, shut curtains, but I never stayed in it. And then I just…same old thing, just sat in the hoose drinking.
14:29.0 – 15:22.0
M: With your pal, or did you stay with…
Aye, that was with ma friend. Aye. Wi’ ma friend. I lived wi’ him most…no’ most of the time but…I wanted tae live with him because he suffers epilepsy and when he drinks it disnae help, he goes out and bangs his heid on the floor and bursts his heid open, so I’m wary that he’ll go outside himself, so…I only met this person about two year ago. But I’m one ae they people who’ll help people, I dinnae like tae see anybody stuck. I’d like people tae dae it for me, I hope. Touch wood I’ll no’ [sighs]…if I’m still coming in and out the jail when I’m 60…I hope the young ones’ll look after me the me the way I try and look after people up the hall, know what I’m on about? I hope I’m no’ still in the jail at that age, but what’s for you wulnae go by you. If you’re going to come intae the jail you’ll come intae it, doesnae matter how much help you get, it’s doon tae you to stop it.
15:22.0 – 16:45.0
M: Well it’s maybe up to the police to let you.
Aye, just stop harassing you. ‘Cos that what it is, harassment. When you get your lawyer, if you get your lawyer to complain, the just harass you more. They just harass you more. I don’t know, I’ve thought about, as you say just packing ma bags and going, going tae England or London, the streets, but what dae you dae to support yourself? There’s nae nothing.
M: Yeah. You’ll get stuck on the streets.
There’s nae nothing. If you’ve naebody tae help you or support you, and you’re no’ working…they put me out wi’ 72 pound. You’re homeless, no clothes, that again because I had tae give mines up because I’m in the jail for 13 weeks, more than 13 weeks, they shut your house down. That’s me lost everything again, all ma furniture, I just put a brand new leather suite in, brand new beds, washing machines, tumble dryer, everything, all my clothes, everything I’ve lost again. So I’m back oot wi’ these trainers on ma feet, these jeans, I think I’ve got two t-shirts and a jacket. That’s what I’m going back oot wi’. 72 pound. Naewhere tae stay. How do they expect you possibly to survive? I lost everything again. That’s the last three or four times I’ve lost everything. I don’t even know what I put stuff intae the house for because as I say I was mair or less doon at ma friend’s staying, I dunno what I done it for, and it was brand new, the suite was like…£4300 alone, brand new double bed, the washing machine, tumble dryer, cookers, everything…curtains, everything, everything.
16:45.0 – 18:10.0
M: And that’s not the first time either [inaudible] house.
That’s the last three or four times I’ve been tae jail and’ve lost hooses, lost everything in it. And it makes you a bit bitter, it does, obviously it’s happening constant, I know I shouldnae get the jail all the time but they should at least have somewhere they can put your stuff until you come oot. It’s only 6 months I’m in for, it’s no’ as if it’s forever. But you’re back oot wi’ the clothes you’ve got on, naewhere tae stay, 72 pound. How do they possibly expect you tae survive? Know what I’m on aboot?
M: You can usually survive but I guess you can only survive but going back to crime.
Aye, aye, aye. It’s no’ a problem getting money once you’re oot but…it’s…the risk ae getting the jail again, which I don’t want, but you’re just in that circle, constant. There’s nothing there…they’ll lib you with 72 pound, the clothes you’re wearing, naewhere tae stay. It’s no’ just me, there’s thousands ae people in the jail in the same positions, they’ve just no’ got…It’s all right saying you’ve got the help and support in the jail, or you can go and ask for it, but it’s the minute you cross that gate, you’re out ae prison, the helps stops. It stops, know what I’m on about? And in the jail they make it “Oh, we do this and we do that for prisoners, we do this and we do that…” Aye, you can put in a request to see ‘m, you can go down and talk tae them. They’ll help you in the jail but it’s the minute you cross that line again, you’re back oot. So the minute you’re back oot the gate to freedom, the help just stops.
18:10.0 – 19:22.0
M: Is there no services at all that you can access?
There is, PSP. Prisoner Support Pathway. All right, they can support you, but they cannae do anything you cannae do yourself. It’s no’ what they make it tae people, “Oh, we get the house and…” They don’t. They only make referrals. I can make referrals maself. Aye, they cannae dae nothing for you that you cannae dae yourself. Aye. They cannae dae nothing that you cannae dae yourself. Nothing.
M: And so how did you end up…I know that you were staying with your friend and how did you ended up back in here then? Because you said…how long were you out this last time after then after the full committal? Three months?
Aye…fae 2014? I was oot twelve days and then I got nine month. Aye, three months I was out for, that was just the same, drinking, usual tae make money, usual things, police still, at every opportunity, harassing ye every time they seen ya, stopping ye, searching ye. There was ma friend one day…somebody got assaulted, about an hour and half later me and ma friend got arrested for it.
19:22.0 – 21:00.0
M: The friend who’s never been in any trouble?
Naw, naw. A different friend, aye. He’d been arrested wi’ me and he was…when I ended up getting accused ae attempted murders, he was the one a the ones I got accused ae the attempted murder ae, and he’s ma friend.
M: OK.
But before…he was stabbed…me and him were in the toon centre, we’d been drinking and somebody got assaulted. We got arrested for it but we got oot on bail for it, when the police came tae arrest us…
M: I thought you had an order that said you couldn’t get out on bail. Didn’t you tell me last time?
Aye, that’s only on indictments and petitions. See if it’s a summary, you can get out on bail, but if it’s an indictment or a petition, you cannae.
M: OK.
A Section 23D it is. You cannae get out on bail if it’s a summary or a petition. Because it was only a summary this time, when the police stopped me, obviously I assaulted them because I know they’d arrest me for a police assault anyway so I don’t see the point in coming tae jail for nothing. But as I say I got oot on bail for the police assault, I got done wi’ a police assault and assaulting somebody else, and ma pal, he was only accused ae assault of the same victim as I was. We got out on bail and they actually didn’t have me go tae court for it until June this year, [inaudible] I need tae go tae court in June. But the person who we were accused of assaulting…he died in January.
21:00.0 – 21:54.0
M: From the assault?
Naw, naw, naw. It wasnae from the assault he died of. I dunno if it was drugs or what it was. But…that person that died, I was in a relationship with his ex-partner at this time, and he’s got a boy and the boy’s in the jail, I got on fine wi’ the boy, I’m not still in the same relationship wi’ the lassie but I get on wi’ the boy all right. But the police and the PF…he died, they put warrant oot and arrested us even though we were oot on bail, we had tae walk intae court, they put a warrant oot for us for whatever reasons, I don’t know. ‘Cos we werenae meant tae be up till June this year. But they put a warrant oot for us, the police came through, kicked ma partner’s door in in January, I went tae court and plead tae it because I done it, you cannae get away wi’ police assaults anyway.
21:54.0 – 23:12.0
M: Right, you plead to the police assault, but not the assault on the other person?
Aye, that got dropped because the victim has obviously passed away and couldn’t give a statement. And I says “You’re still here”. That’s me, I’m still here. Whether I get out this time, just back at the same thing. I’m planning no’ tae go back tae it to make money in the same ways but I’m going back oot the same ways, homeless, nae clathes again, nothing…72 or 74 pound again, I don’t know how they expect you to survive.
M: It’s quite interesting that you go back to making money by selling drugs, last time you said you hadn’t stolen in a while, but it sounds like you’ve done the till this time.
I had tae. I hadnae…even drugs…I hadnae taken drugs for a bit, I havenae taken drugs for 6 or 7 year and I ended up relapsing that time when I was oot and using again, using drugs again. I ended up a drug relapse and using drugs again. I dunno what made me dae it. I cannae blame that lassie I was wi’, she was using, I cannae blame her, she never forced me tae take it, I could have easily left it but I dunno…just boredom to pass the days. Drink, drugs, boredom.
23:12.0 – 25:21.0
M: So was it Heroin you were back on, or…
Naw I was, I was using again. I never had a habit wi’ it but I was still using it again. Aye, heroin….it’s more drink, it’s more drink…aye, aye, aye. It’s more drinking ootside. But…
M: But you never come in for the drug dealing…you’ve had one sentence for it…
Aye, aye, aye. Once sentence, aye. The police…that time we was oot…I’m sure it was November, it was…November or December. The police came through ma partner’s door again at half past 8 one morning, kicked the door in, lying in ma bed tae arrest me for the sale ae Diamorphine, large-scale sale of Diamorphine and I was like “Where are you getting the Diamorphine fae? I’ve never had any Diamorphine.” I wasnae caught wi’ Diamorphine or nothing. And they says “Don’t cause us any problems. We’re only sent fae higher up tae come and arrest you.” So I asked them, I says “Where are you getting the Diamorphine fae?” And they said “We don’t know nothing aboot it, we’re only sent fae higher up” so I got arrested. They take me tae the police station for questioning, “blah blah blah, do you know such-and-such” and I was like “Naw.” And they asked me “Do you know this phone number?” And the phone number they read out was ma phone number, aye, but obviously….naw…no comment. So…ma phone’s tapped, unbeknown tae me they’d tapped ma phones, and they were listening intae ma phone conversations, people phoning me, they said they had phone calls made fae here, made fae there, saying it was me who answered which is wasnae, so I got a PF release, I never got charged wi’ it because it was false. Because…they never had nothing. They never had any Heroin or nothing because…they had ma phones tapped, ma two phones they’d tapped, and I used tae say tae ma partner “These phones are tapped” and she’d say “Naw, you’re just being paranoid.” I knew…I don’t know what made me know, I just…they were. When I was arrested they said they had phone conversations fae this person, that person, then they says somebody brought an undercover police tae ma door for Heroin…
25:21.0 – 26:24.0
M: Right.
Which…isnae true. I dunno what tae say about that [low voice]. And they said that these police bought Heroin off me which was lies. I know there was nae Heroin passed tae they police officers, I knew there was nae Heroin passed tae them. So I went tae court and they charged me but I got oot, once I went tae court, the PF’s release and…just back tae the same thing tae make money. Same thing. Drugs. Tae make money. And then they arrested me for this. I think it was just tae get me off the streets.
M: So how often do you like…have confrontations with the police when you’re outside because you were only out three months…
Regular. Aye. Well when I was out the first…when I got oot in 2014, I was oot 12 days and then got 9 months for breaking intae a shop and stealing the till wi’ money in it.
26:24.0 – 28:17.0
M: But you did got caught for that.
Aye, aye. I got caught for that. Then after that sentence I was oot maybe 3, 4 months again but in between they 3, 4 months I’d been oot, I was accused ae…two attempted murders, a serious assault, permanent disfigurement, endangering life…
M: Didn’t happen?
Aye. Two abductions…you’ve heard that one, aye. Two assault and robberies…
M: Separately…that was a separate charge.
No, that was all on the one charge. That was all at the same time. Eh…a knife…that’s the same, when you’re charged wi’ that, you get fully committed…charges were found not to be true, I got acquitted. Back oot again, I was oot for three or four month, I was accused ae Heroin dealing, twice they arrested me for Heroin dealing…eh…they accused me of another attempted murder, what else…another theft. I didnae need tae steal, there’s other ways ae making money other than stealing. But when I was going tae court, I was just getting PF released because they were just lifting me I think and it always seemed tae be on a weekend or a long weekend, like fae the Thursday tae the Tuesday and I know they were just lifting me tae get off the streets because they were accusing me ae things that had been found…the charges were found not tae be true. Because they were accusing me ae that, they couldnae jail me for that and they started tae jail me for anything else just tae get me off the streets. I kept getting PF released and PF released and that must have made them worse, they must have been thinking tae themselves “How can we no get him in the jail?” You know, just constant. And then they put a warrant out for this one, I plead tae the police assault, no’ thinking that I was getting the jail because I’m also daen community work, a community payback order in the town, working wi’ the community.
28:17.0 – 29:36.0
M: OK.
And that was for intimidating witnesses, I got caught wi’ two witnesses, they were alleged witnesses against me, but they we were ma pals, that was ma pals I done the attempted murders on…I had conditions tae stay away frae them. But I hadn’t done nothing and they were ma pals so I never stayed away from them, they’d nae right. But I got done, I got community work, 60 hours community work. So I plead tae the police assault, I thought because I was daen the community work, they would have gave me just more community work, but I never finished it. I complied wi’ it, but naw, they just jailed me and breached ma community work. Gave me three month for that as well. But as I says in the court, when we were bailed for the abductions and attempted murders, they were ma friends and I had conditions tae stay away frae them, which I never done because I didn’t need tae stay away fae them, and I knew if they seen me, they’d ask me for money because they knew I’d always help them and whatever. But because they charges were found, they were acquitted so the witnesses were never used in the court, so ma defence was…they were never used as witnesses against me. So why should I be punished for being wi’ people that, can you see where I’m coming frae?
29:36.0 – 30:45.0
M: Because they were witnesses against you.
Aye, because it didnae go tae court, they knew I never done it, and they never went intae court as witnesses because they were trying tae cite them as witnesses, I still got convicted ae being wi’ them.
M:What did the judge say when you said that?
Nothing. He just said “You had they conditions fae September tae December”. I shouldnae had approached them. But they never used the witnesses, so yet again I was…we were acquitted, so what I was putting across was, fae day one, I was saying I was not guilty tae the attempted murders and abductions. So I was held unlawfully in prison because I was found not guilty, so they jailed me for nothing, for being wi’ people who were ma pals and because the charges were never brought against me, that’s what I would have plead tae…there was never any charges. I was never accused of nothing because, well, they accused me, but fae day 1 I said I was innocent, plead not guilty, and I was held unlawfully in jail for being…wi’ just normal people. Know what I’m on about? It just didnae make sense tae me. Just didnae make sense. But here I am noo. I’ve nearly finished this sentence, still 8 or 9 weeks tae go.
30:45.0 – 32:00.0
M: Until you get out again.
Aye, but I’m back oot, homeless, got nothing.
M: Where are you going this time, do you know?
Don’t know. I don’t know.
M: Is it up to them or up to you?
No, it’s up tae me. I’d like tae go back tae where I was there, but I went through there hoping tae get a fresh start but it never happened.
M: But your friend’s still there.
Aye, aye, aye. Ma friend’s still there. Aye, aye. He’s a bit elderly. He’ll be nearly 60 noo. Know what I’m on about? That’s what I’m thinking, I’ve said tae a few people fae that area…if I go back tae that area, it’ll only be tae look after him ‘cos I know he’s no’ got anyone, know what I’m on aboot? I’ve no’ got anybody, so the two ae us are in the same boat, and he doesnae get into trouble, he’s never been in trouble in his life, he’s never been in court, I think he’s been tae court once for a breach ae the peace, drinking, but he’s just…he’s no’…he’s just no’ a criminal so I enjoy sitting wi’ him. And see if it’s just me and him, it is, I stay out ae jail, I don’t get intae trouble, but then, the minute there’s somebody else there, there seems tae be arguments, I think it’s like the old saying, two’s company, three’s a crowd. Know what I mean? I think that’s a really true saying. Aye.
32:00.0 – 33:05.0
M: And so what happened with the police assault then that you were in for as well? You said you were arrested because they were accusing you of these other assaults. You said “I did assault them” and you said like last time you said “I only got one punch in.”
Aye, that time there when I got the jail? Aye, aye, aye.
M: And this time did you actually fight with them?
The police? Aye, because I knew they were going to put a police assault on anyway. That’s what happened the last time when you met me. As soon as they stop me, I just assault them because I know they’re going tae accuse me anyway so what’s the point ae lying in jail for nothing? They can batter us, they batter us with batons and all that but they don’t get charged wi’ it, know what I’m on about? They’re a law unto themselves. But the minute you retaliate, they want tae charge you. ‘Cos the last time when I met you in here, ma ear had swollen right up, and ma heid was all burst and that was them hitting me wi’ they metal truncheons. Batons. But then, the minute you retaliate, you’ve no way tae defend yourself, know what I’m on about? As soon as you retaliate, it’s a different matter. They charge you. They charge you.
33:05.0 – 34:39.0
M: Have you ever tried not to do that and to see what happens?
Aye, aye. That’s how I know, that they just throw a police assault on anyway, battery or a police assault and that’s how I dae what I dae, because I never used to retaliate, and you go to court for a police assault and you’re like “Where did that come from?” You’re the one with burst eyes, burst lip, burst nose, you’re the one with your heid all burst and it’s you that’s done a police assault. So that’s why noo I do retaliate, because I know they’ll do me wi’ a police assault anyway. And a police assault’s a charge you’ll never get away wi’ in the court because the judges always believe the police officer, know what I’m on aboot? I’m sitting between two policemen, two security in the dock, so the judge always takes the police’s side, know what I’m on about?
M: But that almost means you can’t stop, because if they keep asking you stuff…
Aye, aye, aye. I know. They just put a police assault on anyway. I’ll gie them their dues, they police where I was staying that time…they werenae as bad. They were like…they’re no’ the same. How can I put it…they’ve no’ got…how can I put it…they’ve no’ got that attitude, like the police through in Glasgow and [inaudible], they just, when they arrest you, they just start battering you, which is part and parcel ae getting the jail, we batter them, they batter us. But there…I didnae know that they were kindae different. They didnae dae this, know what I’m on about? So I retaliated. This was away back in February 2015.
34:39.0 – 35:43.0
M: Right.
And I was oot on bail as I told you because the victim passed away. That was the first time. So I havenae retaliated until after it and they havnae been the same as what they were on the Southside of Glasgow but I didnae know that at the time so automatically I just assumed “Oh, they’re police. They want to put a police assault on you anyway”, know what I’m on about? But they don’t. They seem tae be like…how can I put it mair…I don’t know how I can put it. They don’t seem tae have the same hatred towards you as what the police in Lanarkshire and Glasgow have, know what I’m on about? They don’t seem to have the same hatred.
M: So that sounds like a good idea to stay in that area.
Aye. But I think because of my history for violence, they just don’t want me in the area. They say…they must be like that tae themselves…”Well, we’ve got enough drug dealing and violence without somebody else…”
M:[inaudible]
Aye, aye, aye. So I just think they want me off the streets but aye, they don’t, through there, they don’t seem to accuse you of police assaults a lot. They don’t seem tae.
35:43.0 – 36:41.0
M: That’s interesting as well, that they don’t seem to…
Different areas, aye, aye. But it’s all Strathclyde police do, it’s no…they used to have different divisions, Q division, P division, different areas but now it’s all just…Police Scotland I think it’s called, isn’t it? Police Scotland. But where I was they just don’t seem to have the same attitude. You could actually talk tae them and they would listen to you, explain your case, know what I’m on about?
M: Though you still got accused of quite a few things.
Aye, aye, aye. Accused of a lot. I think it was just people…they know you and they know your past and obviously they’re getting arrested for certain things and the coppers are saying “Tell us this, tell us that and we’ll see what we can dae at court” and they’ll stick people in tae get oot, know what I’m on aboot? I dunno, it’s strange, I don’t know how it works. I’ve never been a grass, I never will be, so I don’t know. I can only assume, surmise the way they work but I don’t know at the end of the day, I don’t know. I don’t know how they work.
36:41.0 – 37:54.0
M: And is this sentence different? Is this the first time you’ve been in Low Moss?
Naw, naw. I was up, this is where I came when I got liberated fae Perth and I was only oot 12 days. I come up here. This is the 3rd time I’ve been in here. Aye, 2014, I was daen 9 month. Then last year I was fully committed through, the end ae May…through tae December…naw, it was September. Then I was out fae September tae January, then they put a warrant out on me for police assault. Never arrested me, they put the warrant out and I just pled guilty because as I say it’s a charge you cannae get away wi’. They breached ma community work, I got 6 month for that, I got 2 year all together but I only done a year because 12 month of it was consecutive. I’m trying tae thing what else they done me with. Police assault, breaching ma community work…there must ae been something else, but I just cannae remember. Police assault…I cannae remember what else there was.
37:54.0 – 39:19.0
M: So it ended up being a two year sentence.
Aye, because it was all concurrents, it’s only 12 months to do, so I’m only in for 6 month. But I’ve been working with the PSP, as much as I know they can’t really dae nothing for you that you cannae dae yourself, they can only really make referrals but even the PSP says tae me, even the lady fae the PSP…I says “They just stopped working wi’ me.” She’s like that “But we heard fae another agency you were carrying a handgun and you were carrying a knife all the time.” But I says tae her, I told her this before I got out in 2014, I says “Listen, I’m gonnae get accused ae ABC XY and Z, so I’m just letting you know before, people are gonnae phone the police just tae get me off the streets. And I said tae her “But you stopped working wi’ me? She said “Aye, because we heard through another agency that you were carrying either a knife or you were carrying a handgun. Somebody said you were carrying a handgun. Somebody said you were carrying a knife.” Which is false again, I told you I got accused ae this before I got oot. She said it was the managers that told them not tae come back there now. Not tae come in ma hoose because of the accusations. But I says tae her there “well it’ll just happen again” and she says “Well now we know next time that it is false accusations” but there won’t be a next time because I’m no’ working wi’ them. I’ll see them in the jail but no’ outside, not after what happened. They tried to section me as well, into the hospital, but I wouldnae go.
39:19.0 – 40:25.0
M: Into psychiatric hospital?
Aye, aye, aye.
M: Why was that?
Because I was getting accused ae all sorts ae violence. Because of my psychiatrist, because of the medication I’m on. But…I never went. I was all right, I was working wi’ the psychiatrist and all that and I actually felt better.
M: Was that last time?
Aye, but as I say, I was actually daen well, I was oot for about 4 month, maybe 4 month…no, about 3 month, going on 4 month there. I wasnae getting any trouble. This is just a charge that came back fae away last January, last February, sorry. 2015. Whereas if I’d have pled guilty at the time, I’d maybe not be sitting here the noo. I couldae still been out, which I think I would have because me and that lassie moved intae her hoose and it was quiet there, know what I’m on about? It was quiet, we didnae know anybody, naebody knew us, well obviously one or two but it was just different. It was different. But I’m no’ with her now, as soon as I get the jail I just tell them tae get on wi’ it. If they’re there when I get out, fair enough.
40:25.0 – 41:17.0
M: Do you feel you were partly doing better because of the psychiatrist, have you had that in the past?
Aye, aye. The medication I’m on, aye. The medication has helped me. It’s helped me. It’s helped me a lot.
M: And are you still on the medication?
Aye, aye, aye, it’s helped me a lot, aye. It’s helped me a lot.
M: Does it make you feel less violent, or what does it do?
Eh…I don’t get as much thoughts, I don’t get as much violent thoughts as I what I would.
M: OK.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just…I don’t know. I wasnae really…when I was oot there I was always wi’ that lassie or ma pal that I look after so…I wasnae sitting just drinking wi’
41:17.0 – 42:34.0
M: Other people.
Aye, random people. Going intae people’s houses I didnae know, I wasnae daen that so…I don’t know. I wasnae…how can I say it…I wasnae getting drew intae the situations, if you’re drinking, know what I’m on about…wi’ people, but most ae the time, when I get out of the jail, I’m sober, I’m straight. I think…. I try tae calm maself down outside. In the jail I can dae it, but it’s just outside…I don’t know. I think it’s because I’ve been in here all ma life. Just so hard out there. I find it so hard. You just don’t trust anybody. You’re in here, once you’re in your cell and the door’s locked, you feel safe, you’re not gonnae get in any violent situations and naebody can be violent towards you. Know what I’m on about? But if I do think anyone’s being a threat tae me, I will, I’ll act first, I wulnae think about it, I’ll just act, know what I’m on about? Aye, I will [inaudible] but I’ll just act. I’ll just act. Like maist people in the jail would dae. Know what I’m on about? When you’ve been in the jail you’ll always have that bit ae paranoia about you I think. Some people just worse than others. You will always have that. Because everything’s done for you, you’re in a room, 12 by 8, know what I’m on about, and your door’s locked, that’s it. Naebody can get tae you. You feel safe, know what I’m on about?
42:34.0 – 43:07.0
M: So do you look forward to being released or do you…
No.
M: No?
I think it’s so hard outside, you know?
M: If you could choose, would you choose to be in jail?
Probably, aye.
M: Right.
Aye. Aye. As long as you give me a drink. [laughs] No, I know I need to try and stop drinking.
M: Have you been drinking today? Because I can’t tell.
No, no.
M: But you do get drink in the jail. You can get it.
43:07.0 – 44:24.0
Oh, I wouldnae drink that in here. Naw, naw.
M: OK.
I drank it once, years and years ago. It made me ill.
M: You say you don’t drink in the jail, you’d like to drink in the jail.
Aye, if it was alcohol fae outside, if I could go to the shop and get it.
M: That’s interesting though, that you can get drugs, proper drugs but you can’t get drink.
Aye, aye, aye.
M: It might be harder to smuggle in.
Aye, aye, aye. It would be, aye. I’m trying tae actually come off. I’m on a Methadone script now. I’m starting tae come off ae that as well.
M: OK.
I started tae come off that on Monday…I went off that. I want tae stop it for when I get oot.
M: OK.
I’m trying tae get put on tablets…when you’re on Methadone you can still use Heroin on top ae it, but they’ve got tablets, Suboxone, and you cannae use Heroin on top ae it so I’m trying tae get on tae them before I get oot so…I know I cannae take Heroin and it makes you rattle as well. I’d love nothing better than tae walk intae a job but…it’s hard. Naebody trusts you, naebody believes in me. A lot of us just need that help, we believe in ourself but there’s naebody else that’ll gie you the chance, that believes in you.
44:24.0 – 45:14.0
M; Does Positive Prison, Positive Futures come to Low Moss?
Who’s that?
M: Positive Prison, Positive Futures.
Never heard about them.
M: Positive Prison, Positive Futures.
I’ve never heard of them.
M: Well I think they’re in Glasgow but that’s like a group of people who’ve all been in prison and they try to support each other and they also have a lot of volunteering. I could write it down for you.
Aye, how would I get in contact…can you phone them? I’ve no heard of them. I know Phoenix, Phoenix Futures, is that what it is?
M: No, so like Phoenix is an organisation that’s run by professionals, Positive Prison…
‘Cos we used tae…they done a lot for the jails…what was the name ae that group. Years ago, but I think they work in the Fife area now. They don’t work through the west side, Glasgow, I cannae remember the name of them.
45:14.0 – 46:20.0
M: If they’re in Fife, that could work if you’re in…
Falkirk.
M: Because Falkirk’s in Stirlingshire isn’t it.
Aye, aye, aye. I’d try anything. See people like that? It would be good tae have them round aboot you. I used tae go tae church in [area in Glasgow]
M: Oh yeah?
And there was a guy in there, I cannae remember his name…Wullie…I cannae remember his second name. He was up in Shotts wi’ me, he was daen 12 year and then he got out and came back in, and he was daen 7 year and now he’s got his ain painting and decorating business, his ain big bought house, and he does charity work in the Govanhill area, I done it a couple ae days wi’ him, just maybe 2 or 3 days a week just tae get me off the streets, it’s delivering furniture for homeless people who got houses, drug users, people wi’ drink problems who’ve got nothing, so it was just like tables and chairs, beds, that had been donated tae charity, used tae go and deliver them. He done brilliant for himself.
46:20.0 – 47:07.0
M: Would you work with him again?
Aye, aye, aye. It wasnae work. I was just volunteering in it.
M: I’m just writing a few down, but they are mostly in Glasgow. There’s also the [inaudible] which is people who’ve been in Barlinnie or have been in and out a lot but they do…I went to an event where they did a theatre thing but they seem to be quite a tight group.
Would they help me, aye?
M: I mean, I don’t know how much they could help with money but they help with having something to do.
No, no’ money but people in the same boat. No’ money.
M: I don’t have their number on my phone, I don’t have any contact details but I could write a card or letter.
If you could, aye. I’d really appreciate that. Marguerite, your name is, isn’t it?
47:07.0 – 48:01.0
M: Yeah.
I do appreciate that, Marguerite. Aye. I do appreciate that. I was thinking about trying tae get intae Glasgow again. Glasgow, Lanarkshire…that’s where I’m from.
M: If you go there the police are worse, so…
I know but…it’s the same when I was there but…I’m starting realise now, but see the older I get, I’m starting to realise that the police need tae be there. They need tae be there because if the police werenae there, the place would just be in uproar, wouldn’t it? But…I’m starting tae get it intae my heid that they will stop you and police assault you for no reason, then [inaudible] I don’t know…know what I’m on about? But even when I’ve been in Glasgow before, I’ve always been on the run. I’ve never…
48:01.0 – 48:49.0
M: What?
On the run. Hiding from the police.
M: They don’t necessarily know you.
They don’t really know me, but I’ve always been on the run. But if I get out this time, I’ve nothing hanging over me, know what I’m on about?
M: No outstanding charges.
And even when I was in Glasgow on the run, I was in the street and that, and they were driving by me, ‘cos they didnae know me, obviously.
M: OK.
It’s as if they gave me a chance and let me go on wi’ it. Know what I’m on about? I think Glasgow’s one ae they places, see like Lanarkshire, Falkirk, what people don’t know about you, they’ll make up, know what I’m on about, Glasgow, they’ll just let you get on wi’ it. They’re no’ interested. That was the feeling I got when I was living there and I liked it. And as you say, there’s mair opportunities, there’s got tae be mair prospects ae work through there. Know what I’m on about? There’s got tae be.
48:49.0 – 49:34.0
M: More stuff.
Aye, I’m daen another gym course the noo. I’m daen a gym course that lasts 3 weeks.
M: What’s a gym course?
PT, weight training and all that. Just healthy living, how the bones work and…
M: Right.
[inaudible] in your body and how tae eat, what’s better for you, what’s bad for you. That lasts 3 weeks. 3 days a week for 3 weeks. I’ve done a lot ae gym courses in the jail. I’ve got a badge and a number fae the BAWLA, British Army Weight Lift Association. So I can go out and train people as a gym instructor, train people how tae diet and all that charge them, like circuit charges and all that. I’ve tried it before, you’ve got tae get intae a private gym.
49:34.0 – 50:33.0
M: The councils won’t…
Aye, they wulnae let you work wi’ them. Because you’ve got violence or theft on your previous convictions, they won’t let you work there. Aye, it’s a thing I’d love tae get intae. Or even addictions work, coming away fae drink, drugs…
M: Positive Prison, Positive Futures does a lot of mentoring, I think. People who are coming out and people who have come out and stuff but it’s just the problem that it’s all volunteering.
Aye, you would need tae dae volunteer work for 18 month, 2 years tae show them you can stay oot the jail, I’ve been told this before because I was near the limit, I was just that away fae it, and got the jail. See if I could dae it and stop even one person, one young person going tae jail and going doon the road I went, it would be worthwhile, wouldn’t it? Know what I’m on about? Then again, you go to college, you go and do volunteer work, you have naebody to help you. Again, you’re back to the same situation, how do you support yourself? How do you feed yourself, how do you clothe yourself, how do you keep the house going. See, where I come frae, it’s just so hard.
50:33.0 – 51:21.0
M; And if you’re on benefits you have to show up there all the time and get [inaudible] and stuff.
Nah, I get put on the sick outside because I got diagnosed as a sociopath.
M: OK.
So the psychiatrist won’t let me work, that’s how I’m working wi’ the psychiatrist.
M: Who won’t let you work where?
The psychiatrist. The psychiatrist just said I’m no’ fit for work. All the doctors, aye. Because I cannae be trusted when I’m oot wi’ people.
M: Do you have disability allowance?
Aye, aye, aye.
M: Would that give you enough money? For a while at least until you decided you wanted to work?
I cannae, but because…if I went tae work I’d lose it, know what I’m on about, my benefits would all get stopped? And I know maself I cannae be trusted when I’m around people. Because I may become paranoid, people that I don’t know, know what I’m on about? I do become paranoid, anxious…
51:21.0 – 52:15.0
M: Even with this new medication.
Aye. Aye. I’m no’ as bad in the jail, it’s when I get outside, when you’re in the jail you lock your doors, and you can lock your doors outside as well, but it’s totally different from being outside. You need tae experience it tae…know what I’m on about. I know a guy who’s been in maybe 15, 18, 20 year and he’s no even wanting out. It’s a shame what the jail does tae people, people arenae wanting out because they spend that much time in jail, they’ve not got anybody out there, they’re scared ae going back oot. It IS frightening. It’s alright for people, say, that’ve only done 3 month, 6 month but…I’ve only been oot about 2 year in the last 25, 26 year.
M: What age are you now?
39. 40 in 2 or 3 month. I’ve only been out 2 year, maybe not even that in the last 26 year. I’ve spent all my time in jails, and as I say I know people, lifers who don’t even want out. It’s a shame.
52:15.0 – 53:16.0
M: But you’re still wanting to make it outside even though you prefer to be in jail?
Aye, I’d love tae make it outside. I’d love tae, but…they says…the mental health says, I’m diagnosed as being a sociopath, they’ll start fading away, but no’ until I’m 50, 55, that’s a while away.
M: What happens when you’re 50?
They say ma thoughts will…
M: Calm down…
Aye, ma thoughts’ll calm down. I’ll stop…being violent and that. That’s what they say.
M; That’s what you want.
But no’ until I’m 50, 55.
M: By turning 50, 55 they’ll change.
Aye, that’s what they say, the older you get, they don’t change, they just like…how was it they put it across…perhaps I can explain it better. Aye, mair or less. You start calming doon, aye. You start calming doon once you hit 50 or 55. Your thoughts are…I don’t know. I don’t know what it does.
53:16.0 – 54:10.0
M: So do you agree with that diagnosis?
The way they’ve explained it, aye, the way they’ve explained it, aye.
M: Because it sounds bad. It sounds like…
It’s just…you’ve nae feelings for anybody, you’ve nae emotions, know what I’m on about? You don’t feel bad about anybody but yourself, become violent, that’s all it is. That’s all it is
M: OK. Well you’ve had a lot of relationships, but you don’t necessarily feel that much.
Doesnae bother me, no. Not at the end of it, I’m going tae jail, doesnae bother me. You want tae look after yourself, don’t you? Look after number 1, number 2’ll take care ae himself.1
M: But you’ve gone to prison for women in the past.
Aye.
M: That’s not just taking care of yourself.
Aye, but that’s just because I wouldnae like to see lassies getting the jail.
54:10.0 – 55:54.0
M: Yeah, but that’s looking after other people. You know, it’s hard to see that as selfish behaviour.
Well I know what you mean, aye. But I just wouldnae like tae see anybody in the jail, know what I’m on about? Because we’re no’ all bad people. We’ve maybe had to support ourself fae young ages and it’s all we know. Once you start daen it and you get convictions, then naebody’ll give you the chance, you just keep going back tae what you know. Know what I’m on about? You just keep going back tae what you know, tae support yourself.
M; And what about the best memory that you have since we last spoke, like of a period or just one event, or…what was the highlight?
The best memory? No’ got a clue. No’ got a clue, man.
M: No? Nothing nice happened at all?
All it is is outside I just drink. Going tae the jail tae visit ma wee brother. I don’t know. That’s it. I don’t really go anywhere. Don’t go anywhere. I like just sitting in hooses, it’s like being in the jail, know what I’m on about? I don’t watch telly outside either, just the radio. Read books. The social worker’s said that, “you need tae stop replicating life fae being in the jail outside. I need try and stop. As if you’re daen the very same things when you’re outside when you’re in the jail, know what I’m on about, and the women says I need tae stop it, but I cannae stop it. It’s hard, you’ll know yourself you’re in a certain routine and if you tried tae stop that, know what I’m on about, you’d maybe find it hard. You’re gonnae find it hard, make your day longer.
55:54.0 – 56:48.0
M: But what are you supposed to do different from the jail then? Start watching TV or…
Naw, outside the jail, because I don’t trust people and I don’t go out the hoose, I like just being in the one room all the time, I’ll sit in the bedroom listening tae music, it’s like being in the jail. You’re no really changing your life, you’re just sitting in a room all the time, know what I’m on about, you’re just doing the same things. But it’s all you know unless you can get a job.
M: And who is this social worker, have you got a social worker in here?
Oh, a few social workers have said it. Psychologists have said it as well.
M: Right.
Aye. And for some reason when you’re 50, it’s starts…I don’t know why, it starts going away. I don’t know how they worked that one out but…2
M: Must have been some people with the same diagnosis.
Aye. Maybe. I don’t know.
56:48.0 – 57:48.0
M: So what do you think your future will be like? What do you think it holds, or what would you like it to be like?
What would I like it to be like…stop getting the jail. Stop coming intae the jail. Tae try and get medication that would just stop the thoughts altogether, know what I’m on about? Just stop. I dunno what kind of future I want. I could get out and go home, the bus could crash and I could be killed, the taxi could come off the motorway, anything could happen. I don’t really plan for things, I haven’t really thought about it, I never have. I just take each day as it comes. Just take each day as it comes. That’s all you can dae. Tomorrow, know what I’m on about? Anything could happen. Anything could happen. Aye. Aye, anything could happen. Only place I really go is the jail tae visit ma brother. That’s it. Other than that…
M: Is he still in Edinburgh?
57:48.0 – 58:52.0
Naw, he got accused ae an assault over there, that’s how I got moved tae Perth…he ended up in Saughton digger and fae Saughton digger, he came here. He got accused ae assault on the governor and the PO doon at the digger in here, he got accused ae assaulting 2 staff members, he got moved tae another jail but he got acquitted ae they two assaults because they battered him and left his face in some mess, his head started tae swell up so his lawyer heard that and taken the photos, went tae the jail, taken the photos so he didnae get charged in there for it because the lawyers got photos, the proof, know what I’m on about? His eye’s black and blue, his heid was all swelled, one ae his ears, his heid’s thingmied, one ae his fingers was broke.
M: Oh my God.
It’s all right for them tae do that tae you but the minute you retaliate…they’ll batter you in here, they’re really bad for it.
M: Low Moss specifically?
58:52.0 – 1:00:06.0
Aye, they’re really bad for it. Their attitude’s stinking. Terrible way of treating people. Terrible.
M: Worse than Edinburgh?
Disgusting. Edinburgh was like… I don’t come in here asking them for anything. I’ve nae reason tae talk tae them. Nothing in common wi’ them, know what I’m on about? I try tae avoid them in all situation. I don’t need tae ask them…as long as they open ma door and lock it, open up for…you could lock me up in a peter [inaudible] day, I’d be happy. I’m happy locked up. I’ve nae reason tae talk tae them, I’ve nothing in common wi’ them. I don’t think they’ve got anything in common with me either. I think they just got their ain friends and they stay in that one wee circle. A lot ae them have got nae people skills. No people skills. Don’t get me wrong, you will get some of them that’s …you can talk tae if you need anything. I don’t need nothing and I’m no wanting anything. All I need tae dae is put ma name doon for the gym, that’s it. I don’t need nothing else. That’s it. Your tobacco and all that, you get that yourself in the canteen. You don’t need tae know what I’m on about? I think that’s how they don’t bother me. Because…
1:00:06.0 – 1:01:03.0
M: You don’t bother them.
Aye, they know I don’t bother them, aye, I don’t ask them for nothing. Never. Only thing I ever ask them for is an inter-prison phone call wi’ ma brother, that’s the only thing I want, once a month.
M: So now he’s in a different prison.
Aye, aye, aye.
M: And he can visit you every 6 months did you say?
Aye, I just got one, every 6 month if you’re in prison, aye. But once I’m oot, I can go every week. But I’m barred outae that jail visiting now, they say I threatened one ae the staff members last time I was in. So they’ve barred me fae the visits.
M: Oh no.
But I need tae write tae the security manager in that particular jail tae get back intae the visits because I got barred oot for threatening the staff ‘cos they wouldnae let me in.
M: Right.
You can go every week…
M: Can you still get your inter-prison visits?
Aye, aye. But you only get one ae them every six months, so the next one..
1:01:03.0 – 1:02:50.0
M: Will he ever be out?
Maybe. Aye, maybe. He’s daen better now in that jail now than he’s done anywhere, a lot better. He’s out in the grounds, the gardens and all that, he’s low category, so that’s trust he’s got, know what I’m on about? He’s done brilliant from when he went tae that other jail, brilliant. Aye, brilliant. I dunno…I’d say maybe once he’s done about 15…15 year he’ll maybe get out. Hopefully.
M: Yeah. Well I think that’s pretty much everything I’ve got, like one of the questions is what is your situation outside like at the moment but you have your friend who you stayed with…does he visit you?
Naw, he’s no fit, he takes fits all the time…well when he drinks he takes fits, he goes oot tae the shops he falls and bangs his heid. He’s no’ got anybody to be wi’ him. I dunno know how many times I’ve had tae go tae the hospital in a taxi and get him, know what I’m on about? That would be the only thing I would want tae go back there for. The only thing. Is tae help him because he’s no’ got anybody, know what I’m on about? The only thing but I’ve only know him for about 2 year, 18 month, aye, aye. I’d like tae think somebody would dae that for me when I’m older if I’m in that state, bad epilepsy and that. I taken a fit about 6 weeks ago as well and got rushed tae the hospital, tae the GRI, that was because I came off my medication. But I get that medication prescribed fae a psychiatrist outside, but the jail don’t prescribe it, they say “But we detoxed you off it” Aye, a 12 day detox, any psychiatrist has got tae agree with ma lawyer and say that coming off Diazepam too quick can cause seizures.
1:02:50.0 – 1:03:27.0
M: Right, OK.
Aye, aye, aye. I got rushed tae the trauma ward. I actually stopped breathing [inaudible]
M; That’s not good.
Ma lawyer got involved wi’ that.
M: So are you back on it now?
Naw, naw.
M: Right, so you’re not on your medication.
Aye I’m still on medication to calm me doon, tae stop me being…
M: But not the Diazepam.
Naw. Naw. Because people abuse them. They class you all with the same brush, don’t they. Because they catch one person they think everybody will abuse them.
M: You had it prescribed so you weren’t abusing them.
1:03:27.0 – 1:04:15.0
Naw, naw. She said “You had them in your system when you came in.” I says “But I told yous I wasnae abusing them, I was on a maintenance script.” That was the only Diazepam I was taking, ma 6 yellows every day. 600 grams every day. Drugs don’t interest me ootside, it’s drink. Mair drink. It’s mair drink. If I could just stop drinking.
M: So they put you on Methadone but they won’t put you on medication.
Aye, I think it’s because I’m on Methadone they’ll no’ gie me it together but outside I get ma Methadone, Diazepam, ma Clotiapene, know what I’m on about? And the Clotiapene [they’ll work with it], the Diazepam are meant tae keep you more calm, know what I’m on about? The other ones are just tae shut your head doon more or less. Make you feel tired all the time, like you cannae be bothered daen nothing, know what I’m on about? Sometimes it’s no’ nice.
1:04:15.0 – 1:05:10.0
M: Do you prefer to be on them or stop because that also sounds not so great. If you’re tired…
I prefer to be on them but no’ the way they make me feel sometimes. See the noo? See ma throat, dry…you just feel claustrophobic maybe. Claustrophobic.
M: That’s not great in prison.
I know, but…it may work but I just don’t know what I’m gonnae do when I get oot. See I don’t know where I’m gonnae go. I don’t even know. I’d go where the best help is. Through in Falkirk, I’ve never heard of anywhere but…tae help prisoners, I’ve never heard of anything tae help prisoners, ex-prisoners or whatever.
M: Let me just write down…
But then if I try and get intae Glasgow they just say “You’ve nae contacts, you’ve nae immediate family.”
M: Right.
1:05:10.0 – 1:06:20.0
Know what I’m on about? So it’s back tae the same again, jail, Lanarkshire or Falkirk, jail, jail, know what I’m on about? I’d love tae be able to get intae Glasgow.
M; And can your lawyer still help you find accommodation because he said…
Aye, aye. See the last time, Lanarkshire wouldnae even take me back. Wouldn’t even consider my application ‘cos ae ma violence. Wouldn’t even consider me.
M: Yeah. But somewhere has to consider you.
I know, but if they say “you’ve got tae go back tae your local area where you’re from”, that’s [town]. That’s just the jail, see where I go intae, that’s just the jail. That’s just the jail as soon as I go intae that place. [Town], that way, it’s just the jail. As I say, people don’t want me up there. Know what I’m on about? Don’t know how many times I’ve been lifted fae people phoning the jail, phoning the police and saying ” He’s running aboot wi’ a gun, he’s running aboot wi’ a knife…” Just tae get you in the jail. It’s no right. And that’s what it is if I got back tae that area, it’s just the jail.
M: Right. [inaudible]
Aye, aye, aye. You want the chance but you cannae get the chance because they’ll just tell you to go back to that area where you’re frae. and you try tae tell them or you try tae move away fae…
1:06:20.0 – 1:07:01.0
M: Somewhere different.
…change and…they just don’t listen. They don’t listen.
M: Well that’s all the questions I’ve got, have you got anything? Actually would you…you know, like that freedom bakery, would you…because you talked about it but I hadn’t switched the recorder on.
Aye, I was working in Freedom Bakery…
M: How long were you with them for? A month, did you say?
A month, aye. A month maybe…3 weeks, 4 weeks. 5 at the most. One ae the Freedom Bakeries, they’ve got everybody convinced…they’ve got a bakers ootside and…they dae this and they dae that and they guarantee you a job and qualifications…rubbish. They’ve no’ got a bakers ootside because they couldnae get the money tae fund it.
1:07:01.0 – 1:08:08.0
M: I thought it did get funded.
It never.
M: Still not happening.
Naw. They’ve no’ got the money tae fund it. But they’re already telling people to put in papers that they’ve already got this bakers.. They’ve no’. They’ve no’ got nothing. All they’re doing is working doon there. They’re kidding themselves on. Working in there, see between me and you, all I was daen was washing dishes and making sandwiches, I’m no’ gonnae get any qualifications daen that and I says tae them “Listen, I’m packing it in” and he says “Is it no’ something we can talk about?” And I says “Naw. You’re saying we’ll get qualifications and you’ll get us a job. All we’re daen is washing dishes and making sandwiches. That’s no….”He says “You should say you want tae dae something else.” I says “I shouldnae need tae say. This is what I come in for.” Know what I’m on about? I shouldnae need tae ask him. And he’s like “Don’t leave…” I said “I’m leaving, I’m getting another job.” But they’ve got everybody convinced…they’re saying that they’re guaranteeing people jobs. They’ve no’ got a bakers so where are they gonnae get you a job? They’re kidding on. It’s just tae make the jail look good, that’s what it’s for. To make the jail look good. That’s what I think it’s for, to make the jail look good.
1:08:08.0 – 1:09:27.4
M: So now you’re back at cooks?
Aye, I’m back at cooks, aye. I can get modules in there, that’s what I was saying tae them, but I’m daen a PT course, a gym course, so aye…so I’m at the gym course every morning, I’m only at cooks in the afternoon. I’ve got tae say tae them, because I want tae dae it before I get oot. It’s another qualification, isn’t it? I’ve got a lot of qualifications frae the jail, that’s another qualification. Aye, it’s another qualification.
M: I mean, have I missed anything, is there anything in the last two years that I haven’t…
Naw, no’ really, no. Just the same, getting arrested, police accusing you ae this and that…in and oot, in and oot, same old theme. Just cannae get oot it. Just cannae get oot it. Maybe hitting 40 it will change, eh? They say you hit a mid-life crisis, don’t they, when you hit 40.
M: That’s right, I’m 40 next year. So I’ll see how that goes.
I’m 40 next month. Next month. Nah, September. September.
M: Right.
Maybe your 40’s will be better than your 30’s.
Hopefully, aye. Aye, hopefully. Hopefully.

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